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National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram  
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 86285 times:

I'm looking at reports of a civilian cargo plane down near of Bagram Air Field in Afghanistan :

http://english.sina.com/world/2013/0429/586461.html


http://features.rr.com/article/048C4jm2C382g?q=Afghanistan

Anyone with more details ??

Rgds.
G.

( Edited to add link ).

[Edited 2013-04-29 06:04:16]


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
288 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineairtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3705 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 86555 times:
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National Cargo 747. Sounds like a load shift from what I have heard.

RIP to those that were lost.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 86447 times:

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 1):
National Cargo 747.

Ufff.... how sad, probably a 3 or 4 man crew ?... Let's hope there are survivors   


Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2770 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 86505 times:

 

Not looking too good...


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oofPmCfECcE/UX5vwlkSgSI/AAAAAAAAAGI/yOKhssfGyGk/s1600/pcrash.jpg
http://2008alerts.blogspot.com/2013/...-civilian-cargo-plane-crashes.html

Awaiting more details.



View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 86304 times:

Quoting KPDX (Reply 3):
Awaiting more details.

NOT Confirmed yet, but all the rumours on the web are talking about a National Cargo 747 ( stall shortly after take off and crashed ). Definitely not a good sight in that pic.

Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7757 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 85624 times:

http://avherald.com/h?article=46183bb4&opt=0

All perished    RIP



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineLGA777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1149 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 85286 times:

This Beautiful ex Air France bird appears to be the aircraft lost today.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Manny Gonzalez - Thrust Images



RIP to all who where lost today.

LGA777


User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 84946 times:

Quoting LGA777 (Reply 7):
This Beautiful ex Air France bird appears to be the aircraft lost today.

Delivered to Air France 1993, ex F-GISE.

The National Cargo livery is really beautiful. The NAC website has not published anything about this accident, probably waiting for more accurate information about what happened.

Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently onlinerlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1093 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 84924 times:

I saw this at theloadstar.co.


http://theloadstar.co.uk/breaking-ne...ational-air-cargo-crash-at-bagram/
"I witnessed this crash today and there was no Taliban involvement i can tell you this for sure the 747 Took off and commenced a quite steep climb out not unusual for here then one of two things happened in my opinion either the strong head wind or a micro up burst caused it to pith upward at what looked to be at least 85deg. Nose up or the cargo shifted to the rear and caused it to nose up. it then did what all swept wing aircraft do in a stall and pitched left at about 1200 Ft AGL then it seemed like the pilot tried to correct and it pitched right and headed for the ground just before impact it looked like it had flattened out to nearly level but had very little or no forward speed what followed was the ground shook followed by a large ball of fire and a huge black cloud of smoke. I truly wish i had not seen this but i did and my prayers and thoughts go out to all involved both on board and the family and loved ones of the crew and passengers."

[Edited 2013-04-29 08:01:33]


I can drive faster than you
User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2770 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 84430 times:

Wow, that sounds extremely frightening. Can't imagine seeing that with my own eyes.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 6):
Moderators, can you please change the name of the thread to clarify the Airline and aircraft type ? ( I can't, the post was over 60 minutes now ) .

Agreed. I'd suggest the moderators change the title to note it's a National 744.



View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7757 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 84331 times:

Update from AVHerald, I'll summarize here:

Reg: N949CA
A/c: B. 747-428M (BCF)
Airline: National Airlines
Aircraft age- 20 years (1993 delivery to AF)

All 8 crew are reported perished in the crash.

Afghan Authorities immediately denied claims that the crash of a large civilian cargo aircraft was the result of enemy activities. A large fire erupted after the aircraft impacted ground
(quote from AVHerald)



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10765 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 84116 times:

R.I.P. to the crew. So sad to hear about the loss of such a beautiful plane.

User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1865 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 84122 times:

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 9):
just before impact it looked like it had flattened out to nearly level but had very little or no forward speed

Must be very weird to witness such thing.



I wish I was a glow worm.
User currently offlinecapri From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 450 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 84088 times:

http://www.flightradar24.com/#!/2013-04-28/15:50/NCR510

this was its last recorded flight yesterday 28/04 on flight radar

R.I.P to all the crew and prayers for their family


User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 84048 times:

This comment in the AvHerald report is heart breaking :

" My brother was the FO for that flight. Just got confirmation from our mother he passed away."

All my sympathies to the crew members, families and friends.

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 9):
then did what all swept wing aircraft do in a stall and pitched left at about 1200 Ft AGL then it seemed like the pilot tried to correct and it pitched right and headed for the ground just before impact it looked like it had flattened out to nearly level but had very little or no forward speed

They hadn't the altitude to correct anything in an aircraft of that size/weight.

Probably being in a war zone they had selected a climb rate higher tan usual, and that only makes the things worst.

Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlinetommytoyz From Tonga, joined Jan 2007, 1353 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 83353 times:

Normally, they fly out empty out of Bagram. The take of is max climb and maneuver with climbing 360 turns. Perhaps run away trim or they engaged the autopilot at that point which commanded nose up.

However, if they did have cargo, a shift would seem like the most likely issue.


User currently offlinegatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 874 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 83214 times:

Quoting tommytoyz (Reply 15):
Normally, they fly out empty out of Bagram.

This may have been the case for past cargo operations out of BAF, but with the drawdown, I would strongly doubt a 747 would go out empty...



Cha brro
User currently offlineFlyer732 From Namibia, joined Nov 1999, 1367 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 83203 times:

Quoting tommytoyz (Reply 15):
The take of is max climb and maneuver with climbing 360 turns. Perhaps run away trim or they engaged the autopilot at that point which commanded nose up.

However, if they did have cargo, a shift would seem like the most likely issue.

In all my flights in and out of Bagram in everything from DC-10s to 747s, I've never done a spiraling climb.
The initial reports say that it did have cargo on board.


User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 83141 times:

Just in case, there is a Family Information Call Center published in the National Air Cargo website, 888-705-7560.

http://www.nationalaircargo.com/info...tion_related_to_Flight_NCR102.aspx

Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineUnited727 From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 412 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 82933 times:

How would one track where this plane has been over the past couple weeks? There was a National B744 parked bear hear last week. Wondering if it was the same a/c??


Looking for the impossible way to save those dying breeds!!!!
User currently offlinecjg225 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 863 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 82890 times:

Horrible news. RIP.

When an airfield is being run by a military, what type of rescue/firefighting equipment is usually on-hand as compared to, say, a typical large American airport?

[Edited 2013-04-29 10:16:13]


Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1782 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 82904 times:

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 8):
"I witnessed this crash today and there was no Taliban involvement i can tell you this for sure the 747 Took off and commenced a quite steep climb out not unusual for here then one of two things happened in my opinion either the strong head wind or a micro up burst caused it to pith upward at what looked to be at least 85deg. Nose up or the cargo shifted to the rear and caused it to nose up. it then did what all swept wing aircraft do in a stall and pitched left at about 1200 Ft AGL then it seemed like the pilot tried to correct and it pitched right and headed for the ground just before impact it looked like it had flattened out to nearly level but had very little or no forward speed what followed was the ground shook followed by a large ball of fire and a huge black cloud of smoke. I truly wish i had not seen this but i did and my prayers and thoughts go out to all involved both on board and the family and loved ones of the crew and passengers."

most probably a cargo movement towards the tail, A microburst that strong is very unlikely and it won´t make a plane to up to 85 nose up.... it´s very very sad, i used to see this planes in NBO sometimes and they look great...


User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1865 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 82780 times:

Quoting United727 (Reply 19):
How would one track where this plane has been over the past couple weeks?

Click on the link below. Once the window is completely open and showing yesterday's flights, click on the plane registration at left. This should allow you to know where it flew lately, at least where it was possible to follow it.

Quoting capri (Reply 13):
http://www.flightradar24.com/#!/2013-04-28/15:50/NCR510

this was its last recorded flight yesterday 28/04 on flight radar



I wish I was a glow worm.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 82594 times:

Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 16):
This may have been the case for past cargo operations out of BAF, but with the drawdown, I would strongly doubt a 747 would go out empty...

I would tend to agree. I'd guess there's plenty of stuff that has to be moved out.

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 20):
When an airfield is being run by a military, what type of rescue/firefighting equipment is usually on-hand as compared to, say, a typical large American airport?

As far as I know it's pretty much the same for a given airport size. In fact I think some civilian airports are covered by national guard firefighters. I do recall seeing pictures of a crash truck being unloaded from a C-5, so my guess is that it's a priority.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 21):
A microburst that strong is very unlikely and it won´t make a plane to up to 85 nose up.... it´s very very sad, i used to see this planes in NBO sometimes and they look great...

Yeah, if it was really 85 degrees nose up I'm thinking it wasn't a microburst. Was the weather at the time conducive to microbursts?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinemabadia71 From Costa Rica, joined Nov 2008, 76 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 82283 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 23):
Yeah, if it was really 85 degrees nose up I'm thinking it wasn't a microburst. Was the weather at the time conducive to microbursts?

Well according to METARs at the time there were several CB approaching the airport

OAKB 291150Z 10017G27KT 9999 VCTS SCT090CB BKN120 16/06 Q1013 NOSIG RMK BLU BLU
OAKB 291050Z 11020G30KT 9999 SCT090 OVC120 16/05 Q1012 NOSIG RMK BLU BLU



mabadia71
25 as739x : RIP fellow aviators Sad indeed
26 SVJ77W : That is just horrible. RIP to all those who lost their lives in this beautiful aircraft. God be with their families.
27 United727 : @SPACESHIPDC10 Thanks for the info....SADLY, this was the plane I saw just last week here at KRFD, literally a week ago. It's livery and very glossy
28 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : This is horrible news. Not only for the family members of the crew, but also a very nice aircraft has been destroyed (uploaded by JVL.Holland)[Edited
29 Post contains links Milka : Quote from Avherlad comment section of the crash: "Nephew on this flight. By Dennis C Farney on Monday, Apr 29th 2013 20:07Z Lost a fine young man tod
30 KarelXWB : That comment is heartbreaking...
31 MSPNWA : Very sad day in aviation. My thoughts are with those lost in the crash.
32 Ronaldo747 : Very sad news, RIP to all involved, and prayers for the families. Not that important but also a sad sidenote: Today marks the 25th anniversary of firs
33 Norcal773 : Very heartbreaking news, may the Crew and the beautiful Queen of the sky Rest In Peace.
34 s4popo : Horrible news and a chilling eyewitness report... RIP. OT: That is an interesting flight path. Is there a reason why they would fly down the coast of
35 Post contains images libsport : This a/c was just at Hill AFB, UT last week. departed here Saturday 27 April around mid-day. Got this photo of it late Friday afternoon.
36 capri : I noticed that too, sharp turn south of Albania, one thing that comes to mind is a high overflying fees that Albania or others charge that National C
37 ETinCaribe : RIP to the lost ones and their families. Sad day for aviation. It appears there have been a few eye witnesses (and some presumably with good aviation
38 NASCARAirforce : That eerily sounds like the Fine Air DC-8 crash that happened at MIA in the late 1990s.
39 AirlineBrat : My guess is that they were flying around Iran. The flight path ended when aircraft was approaching Georgia and didn't show the last leg to Afghanista
40 F9animal : This is such a sad tragedy. Those guys up front knew that airplane very well, so I would be shocked if it was pilot error. I suspect it was a shift in
41 PRFlyer : Lori Alf, owner and board member of National Air Cargo Group
42 737tdi : No speculation here. Prayers for the folks on board. R.I.P. aviators. The airplane can be replaced those crew members can not.
43 Post contains images EK413 : R.I.P First it's Lion Air with all surviving, now we have a tragedy EK413
44 na : Cargo was five military vehicles according to avherald. That must have been pretty big vehicles, trucks, tanks or similar. One can only speculate what
45 Flyer732 : The cargo was likely 5 MRAP's, that's the max the 747-400 can carry. Not a lot of cargo volume or weight wise all things considered, but they're extr
46 na : Thanks, imagening one breaking loose I would imagine it would crash through the aircrafts skin.
47 airtran737 : 23,000 lbs each with the turret removed. I wonder how National loaded them. We had a method for restraining them that worked extremely well. I don't
48 NeutronStar73 : No way in hell an MRAP would fit in a 747. Nope. Try again.
49 dtwpilot225 : This tragedy hits close to home with their primary domicile for crews being KYIP. A lot of good pilots at National, I just talked to a friend who than
50 comorin : Does the nose lift up for cargo access in this type? (747-428BCF). /RIP crew.
51 Post contains links Revo1059 : Looks like this one does...............so I would say......"try again" http://www.automobilemag.com/feature..._vehicle_afghanistan/photo_03.html
52 speedygonzales : No, only on factory built freighters, and in any case the side door can take taller and wider cargo the the nose door. The nose door can of course ta
53 PHX787 : From the photo in the following quote, it looks like this aircraft didn't have this capability: Does anyone have any link to the ATC recordings?
54 NeutronStar73 : WOW! I know we shipped all our MRAPs via C-17 or AN-124, or by truck to seaport, because they don't have to remove the turret and upgun mount. Looks
55 rfields5421 : Amazing - thanks for the link. Learned something new.
56 Post contains images Revo1059 : No problem. All good
57 airtran737 : Considering both Flyer732 and myself are loadmasters on the 747 and the MD-11 and have done dozens of these flights, I would take his word on it. You
58 SpaceshipDC10 : No. Besides the few -200Cs, has any pax to cargo converted 747 ever had a nose cargo door fitted ?
59 PanHAM : No, the nose door comes on factory build freighters only All pax to cargo comversions likew this one get a large side door.
60 Post contains images 135mech : RIP! This is a truly sad event! Prayers and condolences to the family and friends! Regards, 135Mech
61 Post contains links Flyer732 : Guess I'll have to rethink the 15+ flights I worked where I put 5 MRAP's on a 747-400. Not to mention, Atlas, Polar and Kalitta who were doing it rig
62 Post contains links bueb0g : There's now a video of the accident. Totally surreal. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c32_1367332518 Confirms the eyewitness reports. Completely crazy.
63 SpaceshipDC10 : I'm speechless.
64 cargotanker : There are a variety of MRAPs. The Oshkosh M-ATV weighs around 30K lbs, the Buffalo is taller, significantly bigger, and weighs around 45K lbs. So, te
65 KarelXWB : Damn, it's like watching a sci-fi movie. Unbelievable.
66 airtran737 : Poor bastards. God be with them.
67 c172akula : No words while watching that video. Terrible.
68 gatorman96 : That may be one of the most amazing (in a terrible way) aviation videos I have ever seen. RIP to the crew and prayers to their families. I hope they n
69 na : Good god, that looks surreal indeed.
70 Gonzalo : That video is one of the most horrifying things I ever seen in my life. I got nausea and a tight knot in my throat. At least this is useful to confirm
71 NASCARAirforce : I think the video supports the theory of a cargo shift putting it off balance.
72 PHX787 : God help the guy driving that car too...must be horrific to watch. I want to make some notes here, at the risk of arm-chairing.... The aircraft when i
73 bennett123 : May be just me, but the vehicle that the camera was mounted on seemed to be meandering around.
74 okie : Sickening, Even after they got the nose back down the airspeed looked only in double digits. Very disturbing. Okie
75 KPDX : That video made me sick... I just cannot believe that. How horrifying that must have been for the people on that plane.
76 NASCARAirforce : Did anyone else notice that the landing gear was still down? It rose to a height of 1500 ft I thought (or according to video it looked like it was at
77 theweave33 : Yeah landing gear down made me think they didn't even have a chance to put it up.
78 PHX787 : Let me just say again that video is not for the faint of heart...maybe that should've been added as a warning above... That's what I saw too, which ma
79 Alpage : Lord in Heavens !! He basically stalled ... why ? My prayers to those Crewmen.
80 Carmelo : Could it be that they had a pretty bad loaded plane like heavy stuff in the back of the plane and the strong headwinds made the plane stall like this?
81 BMI727 : The pilots appeared to do everything they could to save it and just didn't have the altitude and airspeed. Probably was. Dash cams are common in some
82 Post contains images 817Dreamliiner : Watching that left me speechless..... I actually feel bad for watching it more than once. RIP to those on board what a way to go...
83 ba319-131 : - I don't think I've ever seen anything so chilling, feel quite speechless, the poor crew, RIP guy's.
84 kanban : The thing I notice in the photo is that equipment can only be carried on a 747 with a side cargo door as it is too tall to go under the flight deck f
85 gatorman96 : The vehicle was most likely using the perimeter road to either get to the other side of the airfield or running security.
86 GARUDAROD : ] Holy Crap. Those poor crew members. That thing literally fell out of the sky. Thoughts and Prayers to all of their family and friends. Has anyone ev
87 northstardc4m : There's been several caught on film... UA232 at Sioux City springs to mind, FedEx at NRT as well... and the Tu-144 crash at the Paris airshow... But
88 okie : The only other thought would be runaway/mis-rigged trim. It seems pretty obvious they were fighting the issue from rotation hence the gear was being
89 metsfan1 : That was chilling. If you look carefully it actually looks like the landing gear is being put down. I wonder if they thought that at the very least th
90 Post contains links eksath : This link should settle this side issue about the feasibility of the cargo load that is speculated about for sure. http://www.charleston.af.mil/news/
91 Post contains links b6a322 : this video was posted to nycaviation. its really disturbing. However captures the whole thing. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c32_1367332518
92 Post contains images okie : You may be correct, either the gear is hidden from the camera angle or on the way down. Okie
93 gatorman96 : Does National (and other similar carriers), fly in their own loadmasters? Or is the work done by contractors at Bagram? I'm trying to account for the
94 A342 : A horrifying video indeed. But I don't know what to make of the obviously wrong date of the video. And the aircraft seems to hover in the sky for a fe
95 Post contains images barney captain : I must be missing something - it appears to be the same video already posted. Tragic nonetheless, RIP guys. [Edited 2013-04-30 10:02:03]
96 pvjin : R.I.P to the crew, what a sad accident... That video looks so surreal, while I remember seeing some videos like this such as a video about AN-12 that
97 FI642 : That was my first thought too, however the Fine Air Crash had essentially no restraints whatsoever I agree. Center load too.
98 rfields5421 : I'm assuming a flight like that would usually include two flight deck crews, two loadmasters and one or two mechanics. The owners don't want the airc
99 TheRedBaron : First of all, that video is heart breaking, those guys never had a chance. My condolences to all involved. The crazy angle right after take off seems
100 BMI727 : I think there is some confusion on the issue, and pretty much everyone is right. MRAP is not one vehicle but rather a general category of armored tra
101 737tdi : WOW, watching that is very hard. It is hard to put into words how I feel now, Seven souls lost forever recorded. R.I.P..
102 Western727 : Goose bumps. The crew no doubt knew their ends were imminent. I feel for their families with this video out.
103 Post contains links and images 135mech : Here's the YouTube link again, seems to have been removed from an earlier post! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo51Be2jL8c I, unfortunately, watched t
104 MrBuzzcut : Just out of curiosity, who investigates and issues an official report on an accident like this...a US carrier in a foreign country operating out of a
105 mingocr83 : Sad stuff...poor guys, RIP.
106 dtw9 : Five of the seven crew members are from Michigan. I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who retired last year from Southern, he used to fly D
107 PHLapproach : Indeed most if not all 121 Supplemental cargo carriers do have one. National had their own as well. 4 Pilots, 2 Mechanics, 1 Loadmaster onboard.
108 TrnsWrld : OMG watching that video has me just sitting here in awe. I feel so horrible for the crew in that aircraft. Absolutely one of the most chilling videos
109 Western727 : Why 4...for the relatively short hop (1,065 nm) of OAI-DXB, in theory? Deadheaders, or do they add relief flight crews on war-zone flights...or might
110 PHLapproach : Yes, those Supplemental carriers are just hopping around so it's good to have another crew deadhead with the aircraft to reduce down time when that f
111 Flying Belgian : Seems like that plane was operating for the French army recently as it was regulary spotted in CHR (many pics of it on french forums dating back to th
112 ogre727 : Nothing to say, except RIP. that video ruined my night. Strength and love to their families.
113 Braniff747SP : Combo, theoretically, of the nation in which the accident happened, the nation of the aircraft's registry, and the nation of the manufacturer. I have
114 Post contains links DUSint : It reminded me of this Globemaster crash (stall) I saw some weeks ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Layz-3XxZC4 Though probably not having the same
115 tb727 : I couldn't even finish the video. Fire and load shift are a cargo pilots worst fears. My dispatcher told me right after it happened while I was on a f
116 SSTeve : 1994 B-52 crash at Fairchild AFB.
117 btblue : That is truly shocking. I only happened to see it as the video was posted on a news website. RIP - condolences to their families and loved ones.
118 tonyban : OMG ! I just saw the video and it's very traumatizing. I feel horrible. RIP to the souls lost. This is very sad and tragic.
119 Post contains links BasilFawlty : As well as the Red Wings Tu-204 at VKO, the Air France A320 at MLH, the Air France Concorde on fire shortly before the crash and probably some more..
120 9lflyguy : The just 30 seconds of absolute sheer terror in that cockpit. That video is terrifying. My heart goes out to the crew and their families. May your ski
121 Mcdu : Generally they will bring two crews as no one wants to have crews layover in Afghan. So they have one crew fly in and the other fly out.
122 Post contains images F9animal : The crew fought that hard, and appears they were close to a recovery. Obvious altitude and speed were not enough. I am amazed they were able to level
123 ANITIX87 : Disclaimer: I am not claiming that the video is falsified or that this is a conspiracy, or that the driver expected it to happen. The wrong date on th
124 Post contains links alberchico : there was DH Buffalo that went down because of a gust lock that was not removed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUlVP52tMs8
125 Post contains links tockeyhockey : reminds me most of this crash... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by7fzs6paic
126 tockeyhockey : some of these people have seen a lot of death and are probably numb to it.
127 KPDX : Everyone reacts differently, sir. This is definitely the real deal... I watched a Hawker Hunter Mk.58 stall and explode into a fireball, killing the
128 beau222 : I hope the family does not view this video.
129 Braniff747SP : If you're in Afghanistan... I have a feeling it takes quite a lot to faze someone.
130 Starlionblue : It is very hard to judge angle like that. It is also quite amazing how steeply airliners can climb if they have light loads (not saying this was the
131 Gonzalo : I can think in two possible explanations. One, this guy is in a very violent/dangerous place, maybe for many months or years now. It is a war zone. M
132 flymia : Dashcam and I think I heard the guy speaking English might have been some type of military/authority security guy. Seems at first the way he parked h
133 boeingfixer : With all due respect this was a Caribou that was modified with turboprops and not a Buffalo. The final determination was that the control locks were
134 Starlionblue : It is very hard to tell but I think it was down before. You just can't see it because of the airplane structure behind it. If you look around 0:20 I
135 theweave33 : On second look it appears the landing gear is coming down in the last seconds before ground impact. Even if they thought they could put it down in the
136 sprout5199 : They were fighting it all the way down. Poor souls, RIP. Makes me think about the weight and balance on my little 150. The only thing I can say is th
137 Starlionblue : I think most people here understand that it is speculation and not real investigation. These threads tend to become very interesting because aviation
138 flymia : I agree gear was the last thing on the list. I think you are right some camera angle makes it seem like it was coming down. You could tell this crew
139 F9animal : I love reading what people speculate on here. I also love rumours. If someone wants to share their thoughts, opinions, facts, and so on..... Why not?
140 boacvc10 : I was also surprised at this... I wonder why nothing was communicated as the vehicle had a radio / antenna
141 Starlionblue : With the speculation hat firmly on, that really depends on the underlying cause. If the cargo had shifted the CG way back beyond limtis and stayed th
142 ltbewr : I presume the recorders will be relatively easy to locate, hopefully in good condition to get the data needed in the investigation. Could there have b
143 Starlionblue : Absolutely cannot exclude those. However a "simple" engine failure is extensively trained for. Also the right and left elevators run from separate hy
144 Post contains images zkojq : That video is unbelievably frightening, It must be incredibly scary having a stalling 747 coming quickly towards one. RIP to the crew onboard, those f
145 SocalApproach : Very Disturbing Footage to say the least.
146 Post contains links wjcandee : And your old company once put SIX on their 747-400. http://www.worldairways.com/company-news-release.php?id=20
147 mirrodie : Some things never change. Heart stopping footage, never thought I could envision a 747 in that manner. Its so sad considering how far we've come and
148 flymia : Besides for a cargo shift or something going wrong with the trim/elevator there are probably other possible reasons but highly doubt an engine failur
149 United727 : Pilots are incredibly well trained. We've heard it before...all the tests, training, type-ratings, simulator time, flight time and again more recurre
150 rfields5421 : I wish people would stop saying things like this. CVR transcripts and recordings show that the cockpit crews almost never drop into panic or sheer te
151 FlyDeltaJets : It's called pure shock. Sometimes it even causes people to be paralyzed, like for example when a train or car is bearing down on them. Watching a vid
152 uncgso : how much cargo would have to shift in order to bring down a 744? that vid is horrific to say the least ... my prayers are with the families of the cre
153 fdxgirl : with all due respect to all who perished in this horrifying event. does anyone else find it extremely odd that the said camera mounted car just happen
154 Navigator : Interesting question. I think pretty much weight must be moving backwards pretty fast to make it stall like this. But a lot must have gone wrong duri
155 ogre727 : Why people love conspiracies so much is beyond me. The "just sayin'" bit makes it sound even dumber in my brain, but thats just me.
156 Navigator : Here is what happened at JFK to a DC-8. Could this have happened to this 744? "TIA was involved in a single fatal accident, involving a Douglas DC-8 N
157 Gonzalo : Not surprising really. The use of dashcams is a widespread practice nowadays, specially in some countries. If you check YouTube you will see literall
158 GoBoeing : The camera mount to this vehicle was in the perfect spot to capture it all. That cannot be said for dozens of other vehicles on the field. Analogous
159 RIXrat : The driver whose dash-cam took that horrible video must have been a security contractor, because about half way into it, his dog starts yelping and he
160 Post contains links Navigator : And there is that TIA DC-8 accident that could be interesting to study when looking at what happened to the National Air Cargo 747-400... http://aviat
161 comorin : As traumatizing as this footage is, it would be a lot more horrific if the sounds - turbines and impact - had been captured on the video. rfields5421
162 BoeingGuy26 : Never good to hear about these beautiful machines going down. The video is just shocking... I became an official member of a.net just to be able to ex
163 Navigator : And here is the Fine Air DC-8 accident because of cargo movement: "On August 7, 1997, Fine Air flight 101, a Cargo DC-8-61F registration # N27UA, en r
164 beechtobus : RIP to the crew and thoughts and prayers to their families. Anyone else notice the dog yelp at 1:33? That seemed a little random.
165 garpd : They are, just turn up your volume. You can clearly hear the roar of the engines (no doubt the throttles had been firewalled) and the sickening thud
166 RomeoBravo : Damn that's sad - the crew had no chance at that height. At least it was over very quickly for them. Incredible video, reminds me of that B-52 vid.
167 Starlionblue : As SlamClick once said, "If I die in the cockpit, I expect to die very busy." Not only how much, but how quickly and how far is the question. Even a
168 zeke : Contrary to some people think, Afghanistan does have a government, foreign powers are not have free reign to do what they like, and it does have its
169 teme82 : After I saw that video of the crash. I could not believe my eyes. It was so surreal from my point of view the plane just dropped down like a stone. R.
170 BoeingVista : I think its fair to say AF443 showed us a bit of panic in the cockpit. In this instance these poor guys had no chance to regain control. Not that it
171 Flyer732 : Only thing that may change any of that is the fact that it came down within the grounds of a major US military base.
172 Starlionblue : Depends how you define panic. The crew of AF447 was disoriented, disorganized and making very poor decisions. Probably very anxious and afraid by the
173 RomeoBravo : I believe the quote was... "'Damn it, we're going to crash, it can't be true!"
174 Post contains links rfields5421 : No - it is not extremely odd. It would be odd if no one captured some video. re - dash board camera - how many stories have you seen about military o
175 Post contains links btblue : Dash cams are widely used around the base in Bagram. They're used to document any unauthorised activity and for security purposes - after all, there a
176 Starlionblue : Saying such things does not mean giving up. More to the point, according to the transcript I have the crew of AF447 never said that. The last words o
177 btblue : Yes, it does. Aircraft have to initiate a steep climb to avoid enemy fire/RPG's. Also a steep approach. Google it. A steep climb would also mean a fa
178 RomeoBravo : No pilot with basic human instincts is ever going to give up trying to save their plane from crashing. But it does demonstrate that they are mentally
179 Starlionblue : Ah sorry, you meant "fire" as in "enemy fire". I thought you meant "fire" as in cargo fire or engine fire. Back to your point, this kind of steep cli
180 flyingturtle : Many, many people react like this - a complete "shutdown". They won't say anything. They just carry on doing what they were doing. For minutes, hours
181 bueb0g : Depends entirely on the mass... Actually most civilian flights don't. From people who work at National on other forums it seems as if that isn't a pr
182 Starlionblue : On many airliners, you can use a lower flap setting at some weights. This would give a higher Vr in order to achieve better climb speed. For example
183 LTC8K6 : An MRAP probably weighs in the neighborhood of 10 tons, depending on which one you're talking about. Some weigh a lot more.
184 MD80Nut : Words fail me. What a horrible thing to see. RIP to the crew and sympathy for the families of those killed. Ralph
185 Norcal773 : Very well-said! Can't stand conspiracy theorists who never believe anything!
186 United_fan : I agree,very scary to watch. One can only imagine the sound.
187 DashTrash : CVRs don't pick up thought. Fear happens. Pilots fly the airplane until there's nothing left to fly. To my knowledge there is no such thing as a Boei
188 BoeingGuy : It appeared that way. Notice that he rolled wings level just before hitting the ground. One can speculate he was still trying hard to regain control.
189 PHX787 : This is definitely true. I had an acquaintance who survived a plane crash tell me that he was trying to fix his stall until the moment it slapped int
190 TrnsWrld : This is a serious question that I am truly looking to get more info on. Obviously we dont know the official cause of this accident, but from what we s
191 gatorman96 : If an MRAP did break loose, the problem needs to be quickly identified since these won't be the last MRAPs to be shipped out via 747.
192 Post contains images frigatebird : Not sure it belongs in this very thread, it's just a personal thing. But my first emotion while watching the video was... totally nothing. Only when
193 135mech : That one was caught also, because it was practicing for that weekend's airshow and a few people (way before cell phones etc) had their video cameras
194 BoeingGuy : Quite honestly, I found myself wishing I hadn't watched it yesterday. It was passed around at work and of course all of us watched it. I could be per
195 135mech : AGREED! If fdxgirl would have noticed all of the posts above, she would have seen a "perimeter road" going around the end of the runway as they do at
196 spacecadet : I agree - statements like that have to be taken in context, because there are two things that happen in a highly stressful situation: 1) Language bec
197 Post contains links Viscount724 : And the C-17 at Elmendorf AFB, Alaska July 28, 2010, practicing for an airshow. Fortunately the video stops about 2 seconds before impact. Stall warn
198 MD80Nut : This crash reminds me of the Fine Air DC-8-61F that crashed in Miami back in '97. My brother worked in the area around MIA back then and saw the crash
199 Post contains links flyingturtle : And the hijacked 767 that crashed just off a beach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_961 Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
200 135mech : Very true! Some of the survivors of the Sioux City UA DC-10 crash were reported as "looking for their luggage" and in a serious shock/daze of the eve
201 BoeingGuy : Wasn't there one in Sacramento also? It was another DC-8 at Mather AFB, not SMF.
202 Norcal773 : Yeah, it was a cargo shift after take off from Mather AFB. This happened about 3 miles from where I lived at the time in Rancho Cordova. Scary scene
203 BoeingGuy : I have a connection with the other infamous airplane accident in Sacramento. I worked for Farrell's Ice Cream Parlor in High School. The manager that
204 BoeingGuy : I have a connection with the other infamous airplane accident in Sacramento. I worked for Farrell's Ice Cream Parlor in a certain city in California
205 awthompson : I personally believe that you are better to face reality and if a video like this one comes your way, it is better to watch it. Also if you come acro
206 tugger : Actually most people are wrong about the idea "if the plane pitched up that much, then everything is going to come loose!". A properly secured load i
207 Post contains images lastrow : when I saw the video first, I found it much disturbing as well. Of course I have immediately checked the forum and - of course - there is a long threa
208 awthompson : I personally believe that you are better to face reality and if a video like this one comes your way, it is better to watch it. Also if you come acro
209 CCA : All loads if secured correctly won't come loose, they have to be able to remain secure during possible heavy turbulence including + and - G. Second ev
210 Post contains links Viscount724 : That one was blamed on faulty maintenance that resulted in failure of an elevator attachment bolt. http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=
211 Post contains images Argonaut : In extremis most people keep their heads, especially when there is very little time (just measure the time over which this accident occurred -- it mi
212 Starlionblue : Since this kind of load has been carried before, an error in the design does not seem so likely. However it is is of course still a possibility. As o
213 F9animal : A close friend familiar with this crash told me that the crew radioed the tower to say the load had shifted, and they were going down. Anyone else hea
214 Starlionblue : This has been reported in the news as well. However I have not seen an official source. It's not like LiveATC has a feed either.
215 F9animal : Interesting. Seems like every news outlet is more about posting the video.
216 beau222 : On the two national news channels here in the states that I have seen. They stopped the video short of showing the actual impact. Did they show the i
217 Post contains links Starlionblue : NMA direct doesn't seem to know the difference between engine stall and aerodynamic stall, or how seven crew members would actually sit. http://www.yo
218 rfields5421 : I'm going to go out on a limb and say the pitch up was not over 20-25 degrees nose up. The video angle distorts the movement of the aircraft toward t
219 BoeingGuy : Does it really matter how the exact Supernumerary seating is? I think the point was to illustrate there were seven men on board, not to show the exac
220 Starlionblue : I agree it doesn't matter how the crew sat since it has little bearing on the accident. However the engine stall vs aerodynamic stall I do take issue
221 Post contains links CO953 : A bit off topic: Had a strange moment there when you said "Farrell's Ice Cream." I thought you were about to tell of the Cessna 177 crash in Torrance
222 Post contains links AeroWesty : FlightGlobal speculated on an engine out yesterday, and I recall reading that elsewhere too. VIDEO: Flightglobal expert analyses Bagram 747 crash seq
223 Post contains links BoeingGuy : http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/Sabrejet_crash_site.htm
224 TheRedBaron : Nothing new under the sun. News reporting this kind of events are seldom accurate, in fact they add confusion... TRB
225 Starlionblue : Fair enough, but in the NMA animation it is not talked about like that. The animation specifically says that a load shift may have tilted the aircraf
226 StuckInCA : Interesting perspective you bring to the conversation. I tend to agree that the driver may be somewhat conditioned to things that people living a typ
227 crownvic : In reference to reply 140 theweave33 One of the TV new stations here in the states froze the video just before impact...Has anyone mentioned that the
228 baw716 : First, I want to express my condolences on the loss of the crew. Sadly, I have a friend who knows one of the pilots and that person is devastated by t
229 Continental : Who knows? No one ever will (unless they explicitly say so on the black box). It could have been an accident, a reflex, whatever.
230 KHI747 : Absolutely surreal and chilling. To see that magnificent queen of the skies fall to the ground like that and explode - with all its occupants and carg
231 zeke : I did see that, they have lowered the gear to produce drag below the cg to help get a pitch down moment.
232 skywaymanaz : I had never heard of the one in Torrance. I knew about Sacramento though. That is a very ghoulish coincidence. I was thinking about them last month b
233 Starlionblue : Is this procedure practiced or discussed in training? Thanks for the observation on the forward doors. As I mentioned above, I thought the gear was d
234 fdxgirl : . I really wish people would relax. All i did was make a statement. Which is freedom of speech. To sit there and call me dumb and the fact that you t
235 Post contains images KDTWflyer : First and foremost my thoughts and prayers go out to the families affected by this horrible accident. That video is certainly among the most disturbin
236 HaveBlue : My best friend flies for Southern Air, 747 FO, and has flown out of Bagram many times, and his immediate response to this was that he their normal op
237 Post contains links wjcandee : Actually, the Emery accident (DC8 at Mather) was initially suspected by the media and armchair "experts" to be a load shift, and there were numerous
238 chieft : Yes, they showed the impact on RTL, a major, private, German TV station.
239 PanHAM : The video was shown on ARD / ZDF tv news as well and is also available on several newsprint on-line versions.
240 ogre727 : No, no. You did more than make a statement under freedom of speech. You made the camera being there suspicious and left the idea hanging there, a con
241 bueb0g : Sorry, what has this got to do with freedom of speech? And yes, you made a statement. A statement which implied foul play, which doesn't exist. If yo
242 JimJupiter : I found that inappropriate as well. There wasn't even a news story to report, because close to nothing was known about the accident at that time. It
243 Semaex : Incorrect. You rotate at Vr, but you lift off at Vlo. It's all about field length calculations based on mass and thrust and so on, but to keep it sim
244 KU747 : Very tragic event ... May they rest in peace.
245 Starlionblue : While I do agree that news outlets will make it a point to transmit "sensitive imagery", I also think it is not right for them to self-censor. To use
246 YWG747 : I finally got to see the video last night. It is just eerie watching such a huge plane fall so slowly to the ground like that. You can't help but feel
247 moriarty : I've seen my share of aircraft accidents caught on tape, but this is by far the most disturbing one. I try to figure out why, since many others are qu
248 ltbewr : Another factor could be 'pilot error', made worse by the special requirements on takeoff at Bagram. An incorrect flap setting on takeoff for example,
249 comorin : From the posts, it seems that there are no special requirements at takeoff at Bagram. Not sure how... the runway there is really long, and the aircra
250 Flyer732 : This is true, but the 270 is just part of the SID for terrain, unlike Baghdad which has a spiral climb over the airport to reduce the risk of being s
251 Gonzalo : Sheldon Cooper's style nitpicking, but a lightyear express distance, not time... and giving how " long " is a lightyear, you would have (probably) li
252 rfields5421 : Two points First, I believe the sound you are hearing is due to the location of the camera and the plane coming directly toward the camera, which mak
253 twinotter : I disagree. If a 747 falling out of the sky isn't news, I don't know what is! And what difference does it make where the video has also been viewed?
254 rfields5421 : All plane crash stories in the media start the same way. With a sensationalist statement that a plane has crashed, and in today's world frequently vi
255 bikerthai : Let it rest . . . there have been many dumb questions on this forum that the rest of us should know better than to berate every single one. Next time
256 bikerthai : And one more camera question for all those who have been in Bagram, I'm speculating that there could be other videos of the crash from cameras on the
257 NoUFO : What a tragedy. RIP to the crew. I have a recurring nightmare of me driving to the airport and seeing a 747 crashing nearly the same way this 747F did
258 Post contains links moriarty : To answer my own question: "The US National Transportation Safety Board and the Afghanistan Civil Aviation Authority are investigating the crash" Sour
259 garpd : I'm fairly certain the 744 has an incorrect config horn that will go off when the throttles are advanced over a certain % and the configuration isn't
260 BoeingGuy : All Boeing airplanes have a takeoff config warning for various out-of-config takeoff things (parking brake on, flaps not down, speedbrakes up, etc).
261 PanAm1971 : By all accounts the world of aviation lost some good men and aviators in this crash. By its very nature-aviation is dangerous. These men chose a dange
262 Post contains images 135mech : By the way, I didn't call you dumb, but thanks for playing! Agreed with you both! When people lead off with drama and leave it 'hanging' and act as i
263 PHX787 : Mods- lets make a new thread. Everyone else: What does this mean for N8? They must be struggling to figure out what to do with a lost 744, especially
264 Post contains images Gonzalo : With all due respect, I think being a bus or truck driver is much more dangerous nowadays. Even if you fly to Afghanistan. I think you are right in b
265 SEPilot : Actually, it might not take as much as you think. Remember that the plane is basically in a maximum performance climb; the margin between flying and
266 PanAm1971 : I would respectfully reply-the inherent dangers of being miles off the ground and moving several hundred miles an hour are really not debatable. That
267 davidho1985 : Then you should choose not to watch this video instead of watching it then hope that you have not seen it, especially with your horrible past experie
268 jollo : Those accidents are linked by the availability of video footage, but the dynamics were so different that I wouldn't even compare the "it could have h
269 gatorman96 : You are correct on both speculations, although the US military/govt may never publicly release their footage of the accident...
270 NoUFO : I remembered my nightmare while watching the video - not before watching it.
271 Post contains images JimJupiter : Of course plane crashs are news. But the TV stations have a choice how to report them (and generously funded public TV is usually expected to be a li
272 SEPilot : Actually, the investigation showed that this plane could easily have been saved, but the book was the problem. The book said to slow down to minimum
273 zeke : I would respectfully hold such speculation unless further information is available. From what I can see, they have done the best they could with a lo
274 Post contains links blueflyer : Press release from National Air Cargo issued today (Tuesday): http://evaint.com/industry-news/statement-from-national-air-cargo The most interesting p
275 BoeingVista : I think this was a guy who thought that he had seen everything discovering that he hadn't, he sees it happening and quickly deduces the aircraft is c
276 jollo : You're right, thanks for straightening me out. I took the time to look up the NTSB findings and indeed among the contributing causes I found:
277 rcair1 : Not true. The plane could have been flown out of it had a different procedure been applied - that was in the NTSB report. The procedures were modifie
278 9w748capt : Thanks for posting that. I assuming they mean "Camp Bastion" not "Bastian"?
279 zeke : My experience in the area is that aircraft tend to tanker fuel into theater when they can, and then for short hop to a friendly location before going
280 Post contains links rfields5421 : OAZI - (no IATA code) - I'm finding conflicting information about the runway at the base. It is 314 nm from OAZI to OAIX (OAI) http://www.gcmap.com/m
281 Flyer732 : When you look at the total number of flights that carry the vehicles, things have been going really well. However, things have gotten complacent like
282 blueflyer : I think they were being flown to the ship taking them home. Perhaps ground transit in Afghanistan isn't safe enough... Pure speculation on my part...
283 rfields5421 : My presumption is that fuel is a scarce commodity at some bases in Afghanistan. From what I've seen - vehicle and aviation fuel has to be trucked in
284 zeke : It is not, that is true, and it also takes valuable people out of the loop to drive them, and it has a risk attached. The idea solution would be to h
285 bikerthai : The reason would be the trade off in cost of air shipping the equipment vs. trucking it overland through Pakistan or up north through one of the othe
286 SEPilot : My point was NOT that the crew with the information and training that they had could have easily saved the plane; as I said at the end, they did exac
287 rfields5421 : A surprisingly large percentage of the vehicles used in Afghanistan were flown in - though in relatively short hops from Muscat and Oman. There are t
288 Post contains links jetblueguy22 : Hi everyone, The thread has gotten quite long and part 2 has been created to make it easier for users. It can be found here National Air Cargo B744 Do
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